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Lights POWERR AC-
"My neighborhood association would not tolerate a tank, honestly I would not want to see one in my yard."
The run on natural gas as well (generate alittle less KW though). DO you have natural gas?
My friend and I went shopping today and he returned that Wacker 9.7kw gasser he bought yesterday for $2795 and got the Generac Guardian propane/natural gas 12kw model for $2650 in exchange. A much better deal with its on housing, auto on and off and it's own panel.
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Lights POWERR AC-
I think the LP make the most sense for persons who live in areas like mine. 90% of my neighbors cook with propane and have a 100 gallon tank on the side of the house. My automatic delivery usually keeps it around 70% full. With even 50 gallons I could run the generator for 30+ hours at full power. There are several propane delivery outfits in the town who are glad to deliver and take my $$$. In a pinch if yuo run out most of us have 10 gallons right next to our BBQ and HomeDepot and Walmart have a zillion 5 gallon tanks.
Best thing is the units come with the hookup for the side of your house and a really nice panel to put next to your box inside. With the portables they want about $500 on top of the $2795 for these acesories. The other feature I like is that it turns itself on and off. If your away who's going to start your generator, hook it up and feed it fuel every 5 hours or so? I also can't see my wife lugging a 250lb generator outside and getting it hooked up without difficulty.
HomeDepot actually had the 12k Generac Guardian LP standby unit on sale at $2698 but we went with the local guy who stayed OPEN and helped us yesterday when all the big guys abandoned ship. Today some of the guys at HD were grumbling and not happy that their management closed. Granted the outage was short but nobody new how long it would last and the original news sounded bad. Home Depot is the one place that SHOULD be open in these situations. Walmart, BJ's, HD all were ZERO help. Shoprite stayed open to there credit with limited power from a generator.
I don't care if the others had only limited backup power you have 20+ workers there so you let people in say 15 at a time and escort them through the store so they can get necessary items. When you sell out of ice, water, batteries, flashlights, generators, power inverters, candles, kerosene lights, etc. THEN YOU CLOSE. I have seen it done before in similar situations and it worked fine, you just allow small numbers of people in so you can control the situation.
Heck, the local guy had no power to process the sale he just took down the credit card info. and gave my buddy a 3000 generator! He couldn't even look up the price so he said it's somewhere between 2500-2900 and charged him the average. The next day he adjusted it to the correct price.
He was willing to take it back toda with no problem even if we didn't order the LP model. Of course we did. He doesn't even sell Generac Guardians but he went online, found the model we wanted, called a distributor and ordered it for us.
Darn HomeDepot had generators galore  and didn't sell any or help anyone.
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Lights POWERR AC-
Everytime I go into HomeDepot I feel like Michael Douglas in Falling Down. I just want to go NUTS!
Is this wrong, do I have issues or is this just the normal reaction to a level of incompetence that is only rivaled by the Federal government? 
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Lights POWERR AC-
What does Deere get for that PTO generator? looks like a nice unit any idea on sizes offered?
My only NEED for some sort of power is to run the well. Six horse go through alot of Perrier water in aday
Actually I have solved the horse water problem as I mentioned before. I have a power inverter and can run a pump from the reservoir to a 55 gallon drum in the bed of my truck. Also have 18,000 gallons in the pool that is treated with Bacquacil(doesn't leave chlorine residue) thta could be used to wash clothes, items etc in a pinch.
Otherwise I can stay cool in the pool and have enough food for several days. No real concern in the event of a real bad emergency and looting here.... the Misses is a right good shot, pretty ornery too .
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Lights POWERR AC-
I really like the price and power of the PTO generators, BUT I don't fancy the idea of using the tractor for 72+ hours at high idles speed if we have an extended outage. That's alot of wear on my baby Not to mention tying up the tractor when I might need it to clear snow, downed trees etc. Also is my wife going to want to be out in the pouring ran and lightning, detaching my brushog and attaching the PTO generator, hooking up the wires and fueling my tractor every 5 hours if I am not home?
What if we are both not home, the sump pump and fridge will be out for as long as we are away.
I like the standby systems that run on LP or Gas. $2600 for 12 kw all complete, turn itself on and off. For those without gas I am sure diesel units are available but may be more $$$. Might even be able to retrofit the system to run on gas, it looks to be a standard Generac unit with a diff. carb setup.
P.S. When I went with my buddy to exchange his portable for the LP standby unit, they loked it up online and we discussed the generators at length. I ended up encouraging the owner and manager to order units for their own houses. My friend went to buy a torque wrench today and the owners wife said she can't wait to get hers and they are putting the GENERAC Standby units on their next sales flyer so they san sell more units. They didn't know anything of the units until I went in yesterday...should I get commission 
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Lights POWERR AC-
I would probably just use another shaft from another implement and leave it alone. I could always just bolt the PTO generator down on a wooden pallet and drive the tracor up to it and connect the longer PTO shaft of my rotary mower for instance. I'd add a few weights on the corners of the pallet so it doesn't walk I suppose.
I see they sell units mounted in such a manner only with a more permanent base.
NorthernTools.com has a $999 PTO unit thta makes 12KW. It doesn't include the shaft or mounts but most of us already have a PTO shaft we could use and one could buy or make the mount easy enough.
$999 for 12KW is pretty darn cheap and plenty of power for MOST homes to run everything.
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Lights POWERR AC-
I read that within reason, using a tractor with lower PTO HP is not a problem with the PTO generators, it will just make less power. Now I am not suggesting a 100KW /200 PTO HP generator would make 12KW with my 24 PTO HP tractor cause I probably couldn't spin it. I would however, think that your 17hp PTO tractor could work a 24 pto HP generator with a little less output.
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Lights POWERR AC-
"1) there is NO LPG available during a black-out, if you don't have enough on-site when the lights go out, tough."
Huh?
You could get propane here at the propane dealer of your choice. They are all over the place in suburban/rural areas. Home Depot,Lowes,Walmart,Bj's,gas stations and local hardware stores have as many propane tanks as you needed.I could have bought or exchanged a hundred if I wanted. Sure they will only last 5 hours but we're talking last resort if you ran out and the suppliers (for some reason?) were unavailable. Also my 100 gallon tank (used for cooking) is filled on a schedule so it NEVER gets down below about 70 gallons, that means I am good for about 3 days of continued running without a refill. Not to mention thatjust about every one of my neighbors has 50- 100 gallon tanks of propane for cooking and if I am the only one with power for days on ened I am sure their tanks will be offered up real quick
"there was a travel ban imposed even if you had gas."
Was not a problem in this country. I have never seen a travel restriciton other than the fact that you can't go TO the site of the "disaster". Even on 9/11 travel wasn't restricted in the manner you are describing.
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Lights POWERR AC-
I can only go by my location as we all do, our service stations were not pumping due to lack of power they would gladly sell you a 5 gallon tank of propane or a pack of gum for that matter. Here even many supermarkets have the tanks for sale. There was no run on them because not many people have propane generators, everybody goes for the cheap $500 HomeDepot generator and the farmers have tractor driven PTO gens. Because MOST people have propane stoves their was no run on small propane tanks for cooking on the BBQ. In your area as there would be in any area with mostly natural gas or electric stoves,I would guess everyone neede tanks for the BBQ.
As far as Canada, you must be used to it, a travel restriciton here would spark paranoia and they'd be forming militias by day 2
Bottom line is that we need to choose the power source that makes most sense in our areas, for some it's gas, others choose diesel and still others choose propane.
Maybe the ultimate solution is to have a second propane tank left just for the propane generator then I will have 100 hours of steady running before I need to go and use my 50 hour supply that is in the "cooking" tank. Now I am good for almost 7 solid days before I need to scrounge 5 gallon tanks. I could always alternate tanks every year just to keep it fresh. Now I think that we all can agree, only the most "doom and gloom" would approve of that level of preparation.
Hey, I just saw an add for a wind powered generator, you guys have wind in your locale?? Canadian government didn't halt the wind did they?
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08-15-2003, 19:08 
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